Okay, I've now searched 18 pages of threads and was looking at 5 year old threads, and apparently there really isnt a thread like this yet ?!?

Whats your favorite (or best or most fun or whatever you like) group in Black Pits ?

Mine is currently:

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Cavalier

Dwarf Barbarian

Berserker(13)/Cleric

Berserker(9)/Druid

Swashbucker(10)/Mage

Elf Dragon Disciple

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Cavalier : IMHO the best type of Paladin. Their disadvantage hardly matters, not even in the base game, even less so in the back pitts when you can replenish your stack of thrown axes after every battle if you want to. One of the best tanks, thanks to the fact they have access to Armor of Faith - 25% damage reduction to all types of damage from level 28 on. Great resistances that are really helpful on lowlevel, partially even at midlevel. Can wield Carsomyr of course. Paladin can summon Devas later, which is also handy at the start of battles when everybody else casts something else. Okay, sure, Devas arent as strong as Planetars, but are very good as well. Better if the opponents are undead or need blunt weapons.

Dwarf Barbarian: There is just no replacement for barbarian, in my opinion. Yes they are not immune to Imprisonment during their rage. But unlike Berserkers, they can chain rage - they arent winded after a rage and can just immediately rage again. Really super helpful in the really tough battles against vampires. Gains natural resistance to physical resistance at 11 and maxes that at level 19 at 20%, which makes them one of the best tanks in the late game. Yes 5% less than from Armor of Faith, and only against physical damage alone, but on the other hand permanent and cannot be dispelled. Also gains extra hitpoints from the rage though thats only a minor advantage in the late levels.

Dwarf of course gets the amazing bonus to saves, and can have Con 19.

Berserker(13)/Cleric - I tried both Berserker(9)/Cleric and Berserker(13)/Cleric, and found the power gain from level 13 version very much worth it. It take 3 battles in Black Pits 2 to unlock the Berserker again, but that extra half attack is an extra full attack with Improved Haste, and boy can a Cleric deal damage. I skill War Hammer, Mace, and Flair/Morning Star to 5 as well as Two-Weapon Fighting to 3.

Berserker(9)/Druid. - In the regular game I prefer Shaman over any Druid, especially if theres also a Cleric. But in the Black Pits, being more tanky is uber helpful. I tried Berserker(13)/Druid and it was absolutely not worth it. Also you actually make a substantial sacrifice in the maximum level you can get as a Druid. So I'd rather quicker unlock Druid again, and get to the HLAs quicker as well. Druid just cannot buff itself to an insane fighter like a Cleric can. On the other hand they get a lesser version of Stoneskin and in BP2 they could use Call Lightning (BP1 is always underground).

Swashbuckler(10)/Mage - Yeah I know you dont need Thief in BP. But its fun to have one. The Mage substitutes any holes in the spells of the Sorcerer and can have spells that get later useless.

Elf Dragon Disciple - This is a somewhat annoying class. What the hell is the point of +1 Con at level 5 and 15 ? Thats just so odd. Overall I rather prefer Sorcerer in the regular game, though the difference is not big. In the Black Pits however: tankiness is key. DD gets more hitpoints and +5 AC. Thats surival. I also make this character the protagonist, i.e. they can cast Find Familiar. Unfortunately you only get 12 hitpoints from it, never 24 like in ToB.

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I seem to be quite alone in enjoying this separate game.

The Druid spot stays contested.

With the Ranger Cleric flag, you can go Ranger(13)/Cleric for Druid spells. That means you have to wait for any healer class even longer though. OTOH then your "Druid" will reach higher levels, and will do so quite quickly, and your "Druid" will get all the Cleric goodies to boost themselves into a formidable combattant.

With the Shaman class, you can go just plain Shaman. That means you have some priest spells in BP1, and a basically infinite source of summons, except the Shaman has to always stay in sight. Its really a great option.

The other problem is of course always: why not Fighter/Mage instead of a Sorcerer, and why not Cleric/Mage instead of the Berserker(n)/Cleric.

I have a great unshakeable love for single class characters, so IIRC, I wound up using a variant of the party that I brought through IWD/IWD2, which consisted of:

- Human Cavalier
- Dwarf Berserker (I tried Dwarven Defender at first, but the Berserker resistances are just too handy to pass up.)
- Human Mage (I normally like turning my Mages into Blasters/Exploders, but aside from a few specific situations, in Black Pits my Mage mostly wound up as a boon stripper and crowd controller.)
- Human Cleric (Just your standard buffer/healer)
- Elven Archer (This character actually wound up being my primary damage dealer by far. Archers are downright INSANE.)
- Halfling Swashbuckler (More out of tradition than actual usefulness in combat. I always like having a Thief in the party. Black Pits 2 has more opportunities for a Thief to utilize their actual Thiefly skills though.)

I have now finally made a group with F/M and I have to roll back on my previous statement.

F/M cannot replace a Sorcerer or a pure Mage or a dualclass Mage. They simply need 6 million xp to get to level 9 spells while Sorcerer and Mage are already there at 3 mio xp. And dualclass Mage, well, that depends, a Swashbuckler(10) is there very quickly (160,000 xp for Thief 10), a Berserker or Kensai (13) / Mage would still take its time (1.25 Mio xp for Fighter 13).

And you have to pick the spells on the F/M to support the Fighter, not to be actually a main caster.

If you play BP straight you will end up with 6 mio xp, so thats when you finally get level 9 spells. Thats too late.

I also regret that I didnt made a Gnome Fighter/Illusionist. I just dont need any Necromancy on my F/M in the first place. The extra spell per spell level would be great, and even much more importantly the better saves of Gnomes would be uber.

I would still miss the great saves on death as well, but in many cases against spells would have already sufficed.

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Cleric/Mage is a whole different matter. They have SO MANY SPELLS. They are kind of lowlevel though, they too take 6 mio xp to finally get to level 9. But so many tricks are possible all of a sudden that havent been before. For example in the fight against the demons, I simply set up a Contingency "on enemy sighted cast Protection from Evil 10' Radius" on my C/M and for the first time ever this battle felt controllable and not like total chaos.

And yes I've cast Protection from Evil 10' Radius in this battle before, all the time, but this time it actually was in time to stop most attacks so I had time to buff my group before attacking.

--- Try: Dwarven Barbarian, Str 18/nn, 2 points Axe, 2 points dualwiedling, then 2 points Hammer duing levelup, then probably a twohanded weapon of choice for Whirlwind attacks; I always pick Halberd.

Gets Str 22 during rage, thats +10 damage on every attack, and thats before strength girdles.

AND the guy can tank, with enormous hitpoints and later physical resistance.

AND has awesome saving throws.

AND thanks to his extra runspeed is excellent at kite tanking, too.

Archers are IMHO for archery fans alone. Objectively they are just dead boring. And amazingly squishy when targeted by enemies.

Granted, warriors are in general quite boring in AD&D. But Barbarian is one of the most fun ones.

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By the way the highest damage output I've seen on any warrior class was Berserker(13)/Cleric.

With the spell level 5 priest spell Righteous Magic they get up to +6 on strength and deal maximum damage with every attack.

With strength 18/nn to start and the Ring they get for level 25 Cleric (+1 strength, among other things) they reach strength 25 without any strength items.

With dualwielding and 5 points in the main hand weapon type they get 4 attacks; with Improved Haste thats 8 attacks. Who needs Whirlwinds anymore ? Granted there is this Spear +3 with +10 extra damage, and theres of course Vorpal weapons etc.

But yes they are classic glas cannons. If they cannot hide behind great tanks anymore they suddenly die a lot. All they can get is 25% damage reduction from Armor of Faith.

For the record, my current favorite group is:

Elf Sorcerer Dex 19, Con 16, Wis 18
Dwarf Barbarian Str 18/nn, Dex 17, Con 19
Gnome Fighter/Illusionist Str 18/nn, Dex 18, Con 18, Int 19
Gnome Cleric/Illusionist Str 15, Dex 18, Con 16, Int 19, Wis 16
Human Berserker(7 or 9 or 13)/Cleric Str 18/nn, Dex 18, Con 18, Wis 18
Elf Fighter/Thief/Mage Str 18/nn, Dex 19, Con 17, Int 16

This group is quite a lot more fragile than my regular group and needs more precise play, but gets super powerful in the end. Since all Mages are multiclass and one is even tripple multiclass, the extra monetary drain from having to buy spell scrolls is bearable.

Once you reach battle 3-2 Clay Division in the second game, you can farm money very easily (select the Sorcerer, cast Protection from Magical Weapons, cast Imprisonment on the Golem, done; of course that requires having learnt these two spells on the Sorcerer), so buying spells or anything else is no longer a problem.